Posts by Nathan Natas

At the time of BGH's death, Randy was telling everyone that she had given him permission to put "Visions of Glory" online. I don't know if that was "exclusive" permission or if the permission was granted in writing.

Randy has had trouble with the running of his site which I think is the reason that "VoG" became lost.

It may fall to an anonymous party to prepare a pdf version of "VoG" for free distribution.

I'm not certain, but there probably wouldn't be copyright issues like those associated with Ray Franz' books.

44

Why Do People Become Jehovah's Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

besides being raised in the religion , why do people become jws?

.

Nathan Natas

This has been an interesting and informative discussion!

Let me turn the examination on myself and try to answer "Why did you go along with yo "mama's club" for about 20 years?

Let's see:

1. I was raised to be an obedient and respectful kid. I wasn't PERFECT, but I wasn't a "rebel" or a "hell raiser."

2. I have always been somewhat gullible; it takes me a while to figure out that someone is trying to deceive me. (Believe it or not, this continues to be the case today. I compensate by being generally reclusive.) I believed in Santa, Jesus and Jehovah longer than I should have.

3. When my mom converted, she destroyed the family. Dad split, we ceased communication with all my "satanic" aunts, uncles and cousins. Thus my access to contrasting opinions was curtailed. I had no school friends. We moved from one low-rent hole-in-the-wall to another frequently enough that by the time I left High School I had attended a total of 8 different schools. I was never, in my mind, part of the "class of XX". I never thought about it.

4. ARMAGEDDON WAS COMING! (I told you I was gullible.) I learned that I had a share in a great life-saving work. I did what I was told to do.

5. If I ignored the pain, it was easy. So I ignored the pain, mostly.

How did I change my mind and eventually leave?

I began to see inconsistencies between what I was told "the world" was like and what I actually experienced. "Worldly people" weren't terrible; they were PEOPLE.

I began to notice the little mental manipulations and mind games that the Elders played. "Your sideburns are 1/8 of an inch (3mm) too long" was one example. Trying to use ME to hammer other JW kids was another: "Brother Natas, do you feel that Sister Sally's dress is appropriate for a Christian?"

(My answer was, "It doesn't bother me.") It was a LONG dress way back when long dresses came into fashion, and Sister Sally was an Elder's kid who was going to become a pawn in an Elder Pissing Match if I resplied any other way.

I expressed an interest in "serving where the need was greater," saying I would like to see better results from my door-to-door work and I was told by an elder that my motivation was incorrect. He might have been right about that. I didn't pursue the idea a minute longer.

Then I found out that one of the "six-month TRUTH BOOK wonders" in our congregation was a pedophile, and that cracked my cosmic egg. It took time, but I was finally OUT.

44

Why Do People Become Jehovah's Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

besides being raised in the religion , why do people become jws?

.

Nathan Natas

My mother was receptive to the JW in 1955 because:

1. Her father died when she was just entering her teens, and she was "Daddy's girl;" she missed him very much. So the promise of a resurrection "any minute now" had tremendous appeal for her.

2. She was in an unhappy marriage and wanted to have God make things better for her "any minute now."

3. Like EVERYONE at that time, she was concerned about the threat of nuclear annihilation; God would make things better for everyone "any minute now."

4. She was uneducated; when her Father died, her Mother took her out of school and put her to work on her white-trash hillbilly farm. (My grandmother was probably at least half crazy AND ignorant AND cruel.) My mother never developed a mature perspective on the world that could have neutralized the Watchtower's yammering. She didn;t have any idea about how "the world" worked.

She's 90 now and a desperate "Klingon."

"Klingon to The Kingdumb like you didn't know better."

18

Who really is the faithful and discreet NATHEER SALIH ??

by Calebs Airplane in

we know he was faithful to frederick franz (or frederick franz was faithful to him).. we know he was discreet because so little is known about him today.

for example, we know that he was in the writing department (even though he never professed to being a jw), that wore expensive jewelry and that he was frederick franz spokesman (or did i get that backwards?)....

also, much has been said about salihs strange hebrew-to-english bible translations (supposedly used by frederick franz when writing certain wt articles) and several illuminati and/or freemason conspiracy theories have been analyzed, yet this guy has managed to slip under the radar almost completely unnoticed by all jws and will probably be completely forgotten in just a few years.. so, who really is the faithful and discreet natheer salih?

Nathan Natas

CoCo said, "Strange, other men with that name . . ."

No, not so strange at all. If you do an internet search RIGHT NOW for FRED FRANZ, you will find about two dozen of them alive in the US.

Virtually no name is completely unique.

33

discussion w/ Barbara G. Harrison today

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

i just got off the phone with author barbara grizzuti harrison (visions of glory; italian days, etc.

) who is currently living in brooklyn and has serious health problems.

she is now 67, but is very mentally alert and still has an excellent sense of humor!

Nathan Natas

Follow-up:

Sadly, the free version of VISIONS OF GLORY that "dungbeetle" and I worked so hard to produce for Randy is no longer available on FREEMINDS. Ask Randy why.

53

The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

by OrphanCrow in

i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

what was their real purpose?.

Nathan Natas

Sir82 said, "It was Freddy's idea all the way. He thought it up all on his own and pushed for its acceptance."

Well, not entirely, really. First it seems that "Perfesser" Franz accepted the basic premise of Archbishop James Usher's (Irish Protestant) decision in 1654 to "reverse-engineer" his Bible so that he could determine the "Bible-based" date for the creation of Adam. Usher settled on "the entrance of the night preceding the 23rd day of October... the year before Christ 4004"

Our Beloved Perfesser Freddy (Peace be upon him) had confidence that he could repeat Usher's exercise, which he did, several times, each time 'discovering' a reason why God's revelation to him was incomplete and innaccurate. Two examples are the 'discovery' that there was no year ZERO, and that Eve, God's presumed last creative act, was not created immediately after Adam, but some unknown period of time later.

"When prophecy fails, your skills at improv shall be tested." Kinnison 3:16

Then there are the undocumented contributions of Freddy's Jewish-Iraqi Bethelite friend, Natheer Salih. In fact, Mssr. Salih is so underdocumented as to be invisible, so I am going to do a very cruel thing: I will drop his name and then drop the mic.

53

The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

by OrphanCrow in

i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

what was their real purpose?.

Nathan Natas

No discussion of 1975 is complete without mention of the 1943 Watchtower publication "The Truth Shall Make You Free," which provided step-by-step "Bible-based" evidence on page 152 that 6,000 years of human history would be marked in 1972.

Certainly in 1943 when this book was published no one had any inkling that the tax-exempt status of the WTB&TS would be challenged in 1971.

15

Is this an "all-time" Low?

by Je.suis.oisif in

i just wanted to vent, nothing more.

my aunt died in edinburgh last week.

her obituary facilitates adding candles & personal messages.

Nathan Natas

Sorry to hear your carrot is not feeling grate; take two radishes and call me in the morning.